tv Real Money With Ali Velshi Al Jazeera November 16, 2014 5:00pm-5:31pm EST
[ singing ] do you want bankers to go to gaol over selling toxic mortgages that led to the financial crazies. i spoke to a woman about criminal fraud at jpmorgan. she tried to warn the bank that mortgages bundled into securities were toxic. no one listened. wait till you hear her tale. plus, why hitting the road in an r.v. could be the new normal in america. i introduce you to older americans still lacking for twork survive. i'm ali velshi, this is "real
money". it was a year ago this month that attorney general eric holder announced a 13 billion settlement with jpmorgan chase. america's biggest bank. jpmorgan admitted to misleading investors about the quality of mortgages bundled into securities between 2005 and 2008. in other words, the bank knew that some of the loans were highly likely to default burning investors, this was a civil settlement and no individuals at jpmorgan or any other bank have been charged with crimes. that, itself, is a crime in the minds of many americans whose financial lives were destroyed as the economy created along with the stock and housing markets. rolling stones established a story, raising questions about
the deal the men struck. >> the article by investigative journalist is titled "the 9 billion witness - meet the woman jpmorgan chase paid one of the largest fines in american history to keep from talking." the woman at the center of the article is whistle belower elaine, working at jpmorgan, reviewing the mortgages that went into securities that were then sold to unexpecteding investors. the article said she told her bosses they could not sell certain high-risk loans as low-risk security without committing fraud. she said her warning was ignored. the article describes in fascinating detail what happened with a bunch of home loans from a mortgage company called green point. it was said that she what her team found 40% of the loans were based on overstated incomes,ate sometimes of percentage found acceptable. one involved a manicurist
claiming cannual income of $117,000. but the bigger picture is how elaine's revelation and conversations with slau enforcement officials and regulators were used in negotiations with jamie diamond's bank, and so far they have not been used in a cal case against the bank, even though the groof is there. >> i was a deal manager, that meant i was in the middle of the quality control process, making sure the loans are good enough for investors. >> i'm a security lawyer by trades. your deal is jpmorgan would be buying a bunch of loans. most americans know that part of the story. you were reviewing the loans bought by, in this case, green
point bank and others. >> that's right. and part of the process was the quality control, so we could say to investors these loops are good to be sold to you. if there are issues, here is what they are. >> you had rules. there were rules that said "you are not going to bundle these mortgages and represent them as a certain quality", in this case alt a, a little higher than subprime. >> yes. >> to qualify as that brand or that type of mortgage, certain requirements that had to be met. >> you are saying that you were under some pressure, the team was under pressure to fudge that. >> exactly. when you do the loans where you are relying on people seeing what the income is, you have to match up what the job is, with generally what they are making to make sense. when you have the manicurist saying "i'm making $117,000", it's five times as much as the programs told us she should
make. >> when your team pushed back, there was pressure to let some of these go through. >> yes. what happened when people were saying no, and were at the 40% rate, the person was fired to supervise managers, started yelling at them and berating them, making them do reports over and over, keeping them late at night. it became clear that he was going to keep doing this until they would clear the loans. >> you described this as trying to beat a confession out of a witness, you wear them down, you isolate them, they don't sleep and eventually they say what you say. >> they would keep asking the question until they got the answer they want. and the answer was that they were fit to be sold to other investors. when diligence managers looked at the loans, they were saying we cannot resell the stuff. it was unacceptable to sales people and upper management. >> you said to a senior official
at jpmorgan chase that you have to represent the quality of these loans. if you don't, it's fraudulent. if you do, no one will buy them that way. >> that's right. i stopped the purchase before it happened to get someone to talk about the problems if they put these into a security. >> there's a reference in the article, several references, to the fact that you have the confidentiality agreement. why do you have that. why are you able to talk about this? >> i mean, it's standard for anyone working in the bank. that's why you see quotes coming out from the d.o.j. that some said we were blowing past our internal warnings. you don't see people talking about it publicly. for me i decided that this is more important. there's investors trying to get their money back, and the public has a right to know what happened. a lot of the information that we are hearing from eric holder,
the top level of the juz department, doesn't match what i saw and the d.o.j. nose. >> next - more of nigh conversation with elaine, telling us how elaine probably cost jpmorgan some $6 billion, and we'll learn what her life is like now. you are watching "real money", tell me what is on your mind by tweeting us or hit me up on facebook. keep it right here. come here >> they stick it to the core of the earth >> but this cutting edge technology could be the answer >> the future of fracking is about the water >> protecting the planet, saving lives... >> how do you convince a big oil company to use this? techknow, only on al jazeera america
does influence that way people think >> rock icon peter gabriel believes we can all make a difference >> get technology to people... to empower them... to become more effective >> giving a global stage to important issues >> climate change... we've gotta take action >> every saturday, join us for exclusive... revealing... and surprising talks with the most interesting people of our time... talk to al jazeera only on al jazeera america matt has famously blasted wall street and the banks for causing the financial crisis, and has been critical of the justice department for letting them get away with it. calling it one of the biggest cases of white collar crime in american history, and introduces us to whistleblower elaine, who may have cost jpmorgan $6 billion. matt wrote about it for "rolling stone", in an article titled
"the $9 billion witness, meet the woman jpmorgan chase paid one of the largest fines in american history to keep from talking", we arrived jpmorgan to comment on this. they didn't comment for matt's article or for us. we asked the justice department for a comment. they issued this statement: to the department of justice is saying that despite the deal it made withering -- made with jpmorgan, a criminal probe is on the table. matt says jpmorgan was close to a cheaper deal until elaine came forward. >> clearly what happened was the government was about to release a detailed complaint and file
charges against jpmorgan. there were news reports that c.e.o. jamie diamond called up the justice department. they agreed at the 11th hour to cancel the proceeding and jumped into negotiations and what is interesting is what happened in the subsequent weeks, news reports leaked that there was a cooperating witness willing to testify against the bank. >> and there were reports that it was a woman >> it was a woman, it was clear to who was, or it was clear to elaine at the time. that was intended as a shot across the bank's bow. to let them know they had a case. and after that, the bank upped its offer and came to this agreement which is, depending how you look at things, $13 billion or $9 billion. they settled, and the important thing is the truth never came out. they agreed on a statement of facts, they never went before a judge, and they essentially exchanged a little bit of money and it went away. >> you left in 2009. >> 2008.
>> 2008 you left jpmorgan chase. in 2010 jamie diamond in testimony before the crisis commission, he, in reference to what wept wrong, in many questions said this: you believe that this is not what jpmorgan missed. that they actually knew that they were selling investors mortems that had a high likelihood of defaulting. in the green point deals that you were working on, a lot of those mortgages did fail. >> yes, and, in fact, in the complaint by a credit union regulator, they said that by 2011, 50% of loans were delinquent or default or foreclosure. a huge percentage failed. >> if i was responsible for a major bank, upping their bid,
their penalty from $3 billion to $9 billion, i may have thought i achieved something. why is it important for you that the real story come out, and the real story go to gaol. >> when i was there, one of the things i didn't understand is why they were going forward with this. they knew everyone in the industry, and if i at my level knew, people above me knew when you put these loans into a security, it could cause problems for the security, and they felt on some level like lawyers and pr and lobbyists would protect them. sales because the money doesn't come out of their pocket, and they have no risk. for an individual in a bank, it's worth it to them to go forward and do these things. when billions run through, it can add up to a lot of money. >> is it that hub ris. do you think jamie diamond is a bad person. what do you think of jamie diamond and the leadership at
jpmorgan chase? >> obviously i have never met jamie diamond. for example, there's an example jp mado ff tracking the settlements, there's many millions in settlements, that indicates something is wrong. the settlements are not working. i think there's another being discussed in the news now. >> matt, no one who reads your stuff would call you a friend of the banks. one comment made about the settlements is it's not the executives that pay, they are not paying, we are paying. anyone with a 401k, ira or investment, that's where the fine comes frx. >> that's right, it's the -- comes from. >> that's right, it's the shareholders bearing 100%. not even that. 7 billion was tax deductible.
all of us pay... >> 7 billion came out of tax, investors pay, and the executives, according to your article, net wages at jpmorgan went up. >> jamie diamond had a 74% wage after being hit with the largest fine in capitalism, they doubled his take home pay, and the stock is up. >> what message does that spend if you get caught doing terrible things and get hit with new fines, and nothing happens and you get a raise. >> you are not naive, you are a lawyer, knowing so many cases are settled. the vast majority are settled before it goes to court because someone wants a deal. would double the amount of money have made it acceptability. do you think someone need to be shape to be culpable and go to gaol. >> there are thousands in america going to gaol doing real
time. these people committed crimes that were enormous in scope. we are talking about hundreds of millions that people lost. it can't be possible that not one person from this period was criminal lit guilty enough to be sent to prison. that's the reality we are living in. not one of these people has done a day in gaol. that's not fair to the people in gaol. just over a year ago, september 17th, attorney general eric holder in a speech to the n.y.u. school of law said this, and i quote: >> that was amazing to me. it's one of a long stripping of statements that -- stripping of statements that i take as an indication that he doesn't believe they should pursue individuals, and implies they don't know who the individuals
are. at jpmorgan it's set out clearly in a letter. there are whistleblowers at other banks that have sent things to particular executives. it's hard to understand how that statement can be made. >> can you point them to people. who are criminally responsible. >> for 2.5 years, the government has had my letter with the people at green point who did what, and you look at how they were securitized and what they did and knew, and not allowing emails in order to not leave a trial. there's a very clear path. >> you said the leader of your department came out and told people to stop emailing. >> he is don't email him, and he would not email us. if you sent an email. he'd come out and yell at you. and when you talk about dew diligence and comolympians -- compliance, to not write anything down is strange.
>> what is it like being a whistleblower? >> for the last two days it's strange. for a long time it was keeping a secret that i felt awful about. as soon as i stopped bleaseling that it would not come out, it became impossible. i felt everyone deserves to know this. ordinary people paid for it. security fraud is stealing. a lot of money was stolen from ordinary hart-working people. >> -- hard-working people. >> you didn't tell a lot of people about this, some of your friend and family didn't know. they are seeing it for the first time in "rolling stone." >> you can see why, if i told people, it would be too hard to keep quiet. for my family, it doesn't mean a lot to them. they are from a small town, a teacher and a salesman. it's not something that would translate either. >> thank you for your bravery in coming tout tell the story. elaine is the whistleblower.
a former dew diligence manager. matt is an investigative journalist. an explosive article in "rolling stones" counter issue, a must-read. you can read the entire article in this month's edition of "rolling stone." next, have r.v. will travel. i look at people at retirement age, who are hitting the road trying to find a job. we are back in 2 mftenlts -- 2 minutes.
mostly retirement age, travelling around the country in r.v.s looking for part-time jobs. since the 2008 crash it's become a necessity for many retirees to find work to survive. they flock to big retailers and tourist attractions, farm, and like the couple you are about to meet, camp grounds, to find minimum wage jobs. they say it's a lot more adventurous than being a wal-mart greeter. they are part of an ageing population, part of a normal when it comes to retirement. >> this is cindy and clint's third season as work campers. it's not what they thought retirement would look like. >> we thought the business would keep going and didn't think we'd be retired at this statement. >> they live out of a 240 square foot r.v. five or six months of the year, working at this camp ground outside of flagstaff arizona. >> you have to be organised. >> they had a construction business in los angeles.
after the crash life changed drastically for the couple. business dried up. they held on o for three years, which they say in retrospect was a speak. >> in so doing we consumed the money set aside for retirement. and finally said "well, enough is enough." there was no more left. we dipped into the pocket until the pog et was empty -- pocket was empty. i don't have regrets, especially since we were able to get in, start doing what we are doing here. >> what they are doing is managing two camp sites. their work involves greeting campers, cleaning the grounds and bathrooms, and for clint, hauling water to camp sites and pumping out the waste from the bathrooms. >> that's not the fun part of the job. >> that's the two opposite end of the spectrum. >> cindy and clint are part of a
circuit of work campers extending coast to coast through canada. it's unique, retirees answering ads that hundreds post on work camper news and workers on wheels. travelling by r.v. they do a range of work, picking raspberries and christmas trees, working at amazon, and welcoming tourists at attractions like dolly wood. there are camp ground like the one with cindy and clint worked. they carved out a bit of forest. the pay is not much, but there are perks for work campers. >> you get minimum wage and your site. that could be worth $500-$600. you get campsite, electricity, water, utilities. >> warren manages 110 camp sites and employs work campers. he says demand for the jobs have gone through the roof.
>> since 2008 there's a lot more people looking for us. i have a list of 25,000 names, of people interested in doing jobs. that's not just 25,000 rains, most of our folks are couples. that's 50,000 people applying for 50 jobs i have. >> after cindy and clint lost the builds. they tried to find other jobs, to no avail. >> people our age do not get hired. they don't. >> they were able to keep their home, where they live part of the year. to do so they decided to turn to work camping. without it they say their lives would be very different. >> things would really, really be tight for us, i have to admit. the only income that we have is social security. if we didn't have the additional income, we could survive... >> it would be tight. >> work campers are part of a trend in the u.s.
retirement age americans forced to work longer because of the recession. almost 9 million workers aged 65 or older are in the labour force, actively working or seeking work. as boomers hit retirement, the number is expected to increase by 62%, to more than 13 million by 2022. >> the new normal is working longer. >> the labour force participation rate of workers is the highest it's been in half a century. that's as far as the records go. it could be longer than that. >> during the late recession, 401ks and iras lost 2.8 million. those ready to retire, between 55 and 64 got hit, losing a trillion dollars. >> 40% of retirees, people in the 65 to 64 age have nothing at all in the account for retirement. 10% a little.
not enough to buy a car. it's gorgeous. >> what it means is they have to work, if not to survive, than to subsidise the requirement. >> that's the case for jerry and rose, who have been work camping for a decade. they have a version of what the new normal for retirement means. >> it's not what we expected is to be. we made the effort to make it better. >> for many, spending retirement in the r.v. and working is not a story of desperation, but one of making the best of their situation, and enjoying their requirement to the fullest. >> this morning i was awakened by a bull elk, here, not far away, bugling, it's a pretty awesome sound. this is my background. >> it seems likely more and more older workers will become work campers. american baby boomers saw
retirement fall by a trillion during the financial crash of 2008. this year has been such a roller-coaster ride that many feel lucky to break seven. with few other options americans mostly rely on 401ks and iras to save up enough money. numbers by the federal reserve show older boomers experience a decline in savings between 2010 and 2013, each though the stock market and the housing market saw a recovery over that time. >> that's our show. you can catch real money week days 7:00p.m. east, 4:00 p.m. eastern. i'm ali velshi, thank you for joining us.